Entry tags:

fandom: politics, linkspam, meta

Fandom Warnings Wank: A Comprehensive Linkspam
Note: Due to the emotional and triggery aspects of this wank, please heed and read all warnings. I'll try to keep this as objective as possible, despite having strong reactions to certain things that have been said.

arsenicjade posted her bandombigbang fic, Cello Sonata No. 1 in B Minor "Naissance de Libertè" (the comments were disabled from the insistence of the mods, but is screencapped here for download), a Panic At The Disco GSF fic that had dubious consent issues right in the first part. However, it was unwarned and there were quite a few people who told her that she should change her header accordingly, and arsenicjade did so, even though she disagreed: I am more than willing to discuss the issue with you--preferably at my journal, since I don't want to annoy the BBB mods--but I saw it more as a "brain saying one thing, heart and soul and body saying another." I don't feel that one character is forced into anything, which is how I read dubcon.

After the fact though, nightengale posted a three-comment meta essay, arguing what dubious consent is and how wrong arsenicjade is for not warning, even after the fact that she already had:

Situation: Multiple readers comment that you should warn for dubious consent in your fic.

Do you:

a) Immediately put up a warning, apologize to any readers who seem that they may have been negatively impacted by the unwarned scene, and go about your day feeling better about yourself now that you're no longer putting at risk readers sensitive to triggering?

b) Defend your choice not to warn for the scene, deliberate for two hours over losing readership because of your warning, finally put up a warning, and apologize for the potential harm caused by your fic to your readers?

Readership is not more important than preventing the instigation of trigger episodes in your readers. As someone who has issues with rape fantasies yourself, you might have been expected to have a better sensitivity for this sort of thing.

Multiple people replied refuting nightengale's essay.

megyal wrote an angry post and bringing up ficsoreal's situation that happened a year ago (she wrote a graphically detailed rapefic with a speculum - where she linked the meta surrounding it to the fic, that still doesn't have warning - and refused to give warning for it).

okubyo_kitsune picked up the discussion with much more condescension here.

Thirdly, people have triggers. People have squicks. But if there was a warning for everything or if people jumped all over writers for every thing they write, nothing would ever get written, for fear of the "readers" wrath. If you have a trigger and it wasn't warned for, again, either x-out, back-out or PM the author with your concerns. There is no need to go on a fucking warpath, okay? And just because you have a trigger, doesn't make you an expert on how an issue should or should not be addressed. I have HPV, but I would never ask someone to warn for STDs, nor would I ever presume I know everything about it. I was also the victim of Stat. Rape and Dub-con when I lost my virginity. But I don't get up into people's faces when they don't warn, nor do I, again, presume I can tell people how to handle it. Or my ex cheating on me, or child abuse nor any number of the shitty things that have happened in my life. Like one of my friends says: "I've had cancer, but I know very little about the actual disease. Also, omg! Nobody should ever write a cancer fic without warning for cancer because what if it TRIGGERS ME???? Or, like, a fic with strokes!!! I MIGHT STROKE AGAIN. IT WOULD BE TRAGIC." Yeah, it may be harsh, but it's the truth.

The discussion was furthered in the comments.

iamtheenemy made the first pro-warnings meta post, followed quickly by impertinence's Sexual Assault, Triggering, and Warnings: An Essay (Warning: Very explicit discussion of sexual assault and the nature, anatomy, cause & effect of triggers. Is itself triggery.) that explained and used her sexual assault and problems with triggers/PTSD as an example. cynatnite left a comment in the post saying: Readers should take responsibility for their reading decisions. If they don't like it...stop. Move on to something else. It's that simple. I refuse to be responsible for someone else's emotional issues.

There were many other posts reiterating the pro-warning points:

• quarterturn has a post here
• neverneverfic has a post here
• eternelle made a tangent post related to this wank called You're doing it wrong: Sexual Assault Victims
• ficbyzee has a post here
• thingswithwings has a post here
• airgiodslv has a post here
• allthespoons has a post here
• stele3 made a post called Triggers vs. spoilers: an offer and a compromise
• just_katarin made a post here
• lyo made a post here
• sinsense made a post here
• ix_tab made a post Triggers, warnings and such
• reflectedeve made a post here
• contrariangie made a post here
• giddygeek has a post here
• blackboggart made a post called Warning wank and 'artistic integrity'
• wearemany has a post here
• stealstheashes has a post here
• esorlehcar has a post here
• giandujakiss has a post here
• misscam has a post here
• jetamors has a post here

zvi made a counter-argument using the analogy of citrus and food allergies (which untappedbeauty refuted) and the similarities between the severity of those and triggers. (She has later added an addendum to her post, then moved to completely shut down the discussion entirely.) ethrosdemon also pointed out anti-warning feeling.

(wistfuljane made a short synopsis and the wank was later picked up by metafandom, and wank_report and Unfunnybusiness on JournalFen, complete with a more detailed analysis of the comments in the posts.)

megyal, okubyo_kitsune, and impertinence have made apology posts (here, here, and here respectively). kalpurna made a post detailing how to put up warnings in different ways.

A new post has been made by mockturtletale, saying that pro-warning supporters are "bullying" everyone else, while phoebe_zeitgeist rationalized that the "cost-benefit analysis" presented is not exactly sound. quettaser scientifically explained how warnings should be warranted, and disarm_d made a somewhat similar post.

Despite remaining reasonably calm and level-headed throughout this entire wank, impertinence blew off some steam.

trigger_fence was made in response to this wank, a reader resource journal that lists authors who don't warn for their fics. cynatnite, racric, mara_snh, and a few others, though, essentially calling this compilation list a "blacklist" and have decided to report it to LiveJournal as a violation of conduct:

I'm reporting this new site to LJ as a possible violation of their prohibition on the creation of a journal for the purposes of harassment. Here is a link for you should you ever wish to take advantage of it: www.livejournal.com/support/faqbrowse.bml
Finally, I would like to say about this latest wankery that there are valid reasons on both sides of the warnings issue. I don't think every fandom needs the same system of addressing it; a uniform "rule" for this probably isn't realistic. There needs to be some common sense and sensitivity all around.

cynatnite, upset over this list, wrote a post voicing her anger, that she later deleted.

(There is slight controversy surrounding aukestrel's post where several members of fandom have thought that the post is implying that impertinence was essentially lying about her sexual assault in her meta, especially considering the response she left in impertinence's journal. It is mostly speculation and should be taken as such. Eta: The post has been locked down, but this has been said as a result:)

It did not occur to me until I got home and checked my messages that anyone would equate this post to the warnings debate. My stance on warnings is (I thought) well known. I use warnings on my stories. I have been known to beg for warnings on other people's stories (even if my tongue is firmly in cheek). That is not what this post is about.

The murder (assassination) of Dr. Tiller - there's no way to say this that doesn't sound self serving, since I didn't know him and never needed his services - but it affected me deeply. If my daughter, or my niece, or my next door neighbour ever needed his services, well, he's no longer here to provide them. The people who made sure he was no longer here to provide them have shown they are willing to condone any action to save the life of... what? A fake "baby"?

And I have been spending way too much time on Huffpo following this issue, which is (I realise) not healthy. Violence against women's reproductive health providers is okay with the US Senate. Murdering someone in cold blood because he provided necessary and legal medical services is also, apparently, okay. At least with the US Attorney and his lukewarm response. And yet the anti-abortion faction chose to glorify this woman and her fake baby at the expense of (too many) RL people who have had to make this choice and suffer through this decision. (And some of them are still making excuses for her.)

I've had my own experience with an internet troll. That's the second reason for this post: I have consistently warned people - for 9 years now - not to take anyone on the internet at face value the way I did, even though the more I look into this April Rose thing, the more I realise that I got off relatively easily.

lcsbanana made a detailed post pointing out the most "offending" comments from the users who have been staunch supporters of writers "artistic integrity" and the freedom of warning their fics. liviapenn has decided to take the time to apologize, stating that she was planning on writing a follow-up post. queenofhell has described how certain people arguing their points have used derailing tactics to get people off the main issues/problems. (naath has made a similar derailing meta discussion, as well.)

Long-term fandom veteran the_willow, a very good friend of zvi, made an emotional post pointing out how triggers are real-life problems that sexual assault victims have to deal with constantly. It is unknown whether or not this was the reason zvi shut down the discussion in her journal as a result.

destina wrote a post describing the tiresome efforts of being in a fandom where debates are endless and angry. Although, not directly talking about her thoughts on the warning wank, it's relevant all the same. racric discussed how bandom (the fandom that originated this wank in the first place) gave her much discomfort. And mara_snh, unable to leave things along even after locking down and deleting her previous posts, made a new post claiming that she has been "banned from bandom."

telesilla posted her pros and cons on the situation. oulangi refutes all the key points made on the side for pro-warnings.

ficsoreal makes a post to declare that she isn't a bad person like fandom has been led to believe. And wistfuljane has written an open letter to zvi.



Eta as of 06/25/09 3:15 pm EST: Links are still being compiled (if someone made a post regarding this, please feel free to link here).